WHY I THINK BOB ELLIOTT SHOULD BE IN COOPERSTOWN
By- Damien
Bob Elliott was the best all around third baseman of the 1940’s, and one of the most consistently excellent hitters of the decade. He had six 100 RBI seasons and was the NL MVP in 1947. Elliott was also a very good fielder at the hot corner, but started his career in the Pittsburgh Pirates’ outfield in 1939 with a .333 batting average in 32 games. He batted .292 as a regular rightfielder in 1940 and was an all-star for the first time in 1941. Elliott moved over to third base for the 1942 season (although he would also secondarily play in the outfield for the remainder of his career) and was again an all-star with 89 RBI’s and a .296 average. He batted .315 and drove in over 100 runs for the first time in 1943, establishing himself as one of the elite players in the league. Elliott followed up that campaign with two straight 108 RBI seasons, but slumped to 68 in 1946, which resulted in his trade to the Boston Braves. He rebounded in 1947 by batting .317 with 22 home runs and 113 RBI’s as the League MVP. Elliott had his second best season in 1948, with 23 homers and the most walks (131) in the MLB and in franchise history. That season, the Braves reached the World Series, and Elliott batted .333 with two home runs, five RBI’s, and four runs scored in the Series. In 1949, he batted .280 and accomplished his most remarkable feat: he collected the most hits in the decade of the 1940’s with 1,563. Elliott had his last truly great season in 1950, .305 with 24 homers and 107 RBI’s. At the age of 34, he was an all-star for the seventh time in 1951, and hit ten home runs in 98 games for the New York Giants in 1952. Elliott wrapped up his career with a .255 average and nine homers in 368 at bats with the Browns and White Sox in 1953. Bob Elliott was an amazing hitter and a fine fielder whose consistency both at the plate and in the field were worthy of Cooperstown.
LIFETIME STATISTICS
Games career: 1,978 season high: 156 in 1943
At Bats career: 7,141 season high: 581 in 1943
Hits career: 2,061 season high: 176 in 1947
Doubles career: 382 season high: 36 in 1945
Triples career: 94 season high: 16 in 1944
Home Runs career: 170 season high: 24 in 1950
Runs career: 1,064 season high: 99 in 1948
Runs Batted In career: 1,195 season high: 113 in 1947
Stolen Bases career: 60 season high: 13 in 1940
Walks career: 967 season high: 131 in 1948 led AL: 131 in 1948
Strikeouts career: 604 season high: 67 in 1950
Batting Average career: .289 season high: .317 in 1947
On Base Percentage career: .375 season high: .423 in 1948
Slugging Percentage career: .440 season high: .517 in 1947
Total Bases career: 3,141 season high: 287 in 1947
Sacrifice Hits career: 66 season high: 13 in 1940
Fielding Percentage career: .953 season high: .979 in 1946 led NL 3B: .956 in 1947
Double Plays career: 259 season high: 34 in 1943 led NL 3B: 34 in 1943, 22 in 1944
Putouts career: 2,519 season high: 302 in 1940 led NL 3B: 173 in 1942, 146 in 1948
Assists career: 2,790 season high: 302 in 1947 led NL 3B: 285 in 1942 and 1944, 294 in 1943
DID YOU KNOW?
-nicknamed “Mr. Team”
-went 2-for-5 with a home run and three RBI’s on his MLB debut
-retired with the highest career slugging percentage of any third baseman in NL history
-hit for the cycle on July 15, 1945
-hit two home runs off of Hall of Famer Robin Roberts on opening night in 1952 for the Giants
-also finished eighth in the 1943 NL MVP Award voting, ninth in 1942, tenth in 1944, 13th in 1948, 16th in 1945, and 24th in 1950
-drove in 100 or more runs with less than ten home runs in both 1943 and 1945, and since 1950 only two have accomplished the rare feat (Tom Herr and Hall of Famer Paul Molitor)
-also hit two home runs off of Hall of Famer Carl Hubbell and four off of Harry Brecheen
-led NL third basemen in games in 1943 (151) and 1948 (150)
-managed the Kansas City Athletics during the 1960 season
-also played two games at second base, two at shortstop, 91 as a pinch hitter, and three as a pinch runner
-among MLB third basemen, ranks 44th in career putouts
There are significantly worse players in the hall. On the other hand, here are some 3rd basemen I'd like to see in first: Scott Rolen, Graig Nettles, Ken Boyer, Darrell Evans, Stan Hack, Ron Cey, and David Wright.
ReplyDeleteBob Elliott was basically Buddy Bell, but with a shorter career.
I'll respond to your last comment on my blog here:Yes, you are not the only person who reads the archives, but people going back and reading posts makes up a small percentage of my page views.
Have a good night.
Thank you. I think that you're a thumbs down ( I can't live off of "There are significantly worse players in the hall"), but I think that he's okay. Let's debate, shall we? For me, Rolen, Boyer, Hack, and Bell are in, Wright is a toss up, and the others are all thumbs down. At any rate, I had a lot of fun researching Elliott in particular, and I hope that you enjoyed this article as well.
ReplyDeleteBob Elliott's a fun player because, though he was quite good, NOBODY remembers him anymore. The problem is that if he never played for any notable teams. If he had played for the Dodgers, the Yankees, the Cardinals, or somebody like that, he would be remembered. But he played for the Pirates, the Braves, all when they were mediocre. Serious bad timing.
ReplyDeleteAnd let's debate.
Cey we have already discussed.
The thing with Graig Nettles is that nobody looks past his batting averages. They say that a player with a .248 career mark, and seasonal averages of .228, .232, .218, .235, .234, and other woeful averages does not belong within 1000 miles of the hall of fame. The thing is that he has many valuable plusses. He hit 390 home runs, and walked 1088 times, which puts his OPS+ (his overall offense contributions) at a respectable 110. That alone certainly wouldn't get him into the hall of fame. But he was also an incredible fielder. He won 2 gold gloves, and that was because he was in the same league as Brooks Robinson during his prime. BR has him as being 140 runs above average is a fielder, which is not out of line with his impression. He had one world series, 1977 or 1978, where his defensive performance matched Brooks' in 1970, but nobody remembers it because the slot was already filled. He also had some good lines. The key to beating Lasorda's Dodgers, he said, was to keep them from hugging each other too much.
Darrell Evans has basically the same argument as Nettles, except more walks, less defense, and less wit.
Joe Gordon for the hall of fame? 9x all-star, wonderful defense, an MVP award, and 253 home runs.
Elliott did shine in the 1948 World Series, and if they'd won, he may be in today. He did win an MVP. For Nettles, you make a good argument. But a 110 OPS+ is not that great, and for a guy who hit .248, 390 homers is not going to do it. Also, he was once caught with a corked bat, which he said was a gift from a fan. Evans is a little better, but still a Hall of Very Gooder to me. Gordon is okay, but he was very lucky to win the MVP over Ted Williams. It was the worst MVP vote in history. Still, if he was out, I would include him on this blog, but he would be on the weaker end of my players, to me.
DeleteYeah, it was not a very good MVP vote. Williams won the triple crown of AVG/HR/RBI, while Gordon had his own triple crown: Strikeouts, grounded into double plays, and errors. But you have to understand that he was a truly outstanding fielder. Some quotes I'm getting from a Bill James book:
Delete"Gordon, probably the most spectacular second baseman in the game... -Leonard Vaughn, Chicago Tribune, Sep. 28 1941
"Rizzuto and Gordon are a better all-around second base combination than Reese and Herman.-Washington Post, Sep. 29, 1941
etc.
And he really was a very good hitter too. He hit 253 home runs, and he missed 2 years to WWII while also being hurt by his home park. ( I just remembered that Gordon is in the hall, which always slips my mind for some reason.) In his first season out of the big leagues, he hit 43 homers in 148 games for Sacramento in the PCL.
390 homers+ incredible defense= HOF for me. If you agree that Schmidt is the #1 3rd baseman ever, which he was, I don't know why Nettles, a middle class man's Schmidt, isn't in. (I'm posting as John I. because I signed in to it to do a post on my baseball blog. Which is up.)
I never said that Gordon wasn't a good fielder. He has a very good reputation as an infielder. Even though he didn't earn the MVP, I am still driven crazy by those who say that his enshrinement was a bad choice. He's also in Baseball's 100, by the way.
DeleteJust so you know, I can name three third basemen who were better than Schmidt right off the bat: Wade Boggs, George Brett, and Brooks Robinson. I know that you may think that I am crazy, but Schmidt was far from the ideal third baseman. My three were closer.
DeleteWhaddaya think about the LeMahieu and Kluber signings? I think the LeMahieu signing was a great move for the Yankees, and I rate the Kluber signing a B.
ReplyDeleteThe Yanks are lucky that DJ can hit outside of Coors, but he is by far the best second baseman in of baseball. Kluber is aging, but he is still good, and good starters are very valuable, so he's alright. But all in all, every contract stinks because they commonly pay the ballplayers many, many times more than they do regular working people. This is a clear indication of the corruption of our world and how much cheap entertainment controls money and lives.
DeleteDJ has a unique ability to take advantage of Yankee Stadium, so I think it was smart of him to resign with the Yanks.
DeleteAnd about your comment about income inequality. Corruption is not the reason why they get payed so much. The reason is simply because they generate that kind of money. Team's get huge amounts of money from attendance, TV deals, sponsorships, etc. and what would be wrong would be for the player's NOT to share in that.
Before free agency, what would happen would be that the owner's would be getting all the money, and the player's not getting much. Which is worse, I think, than what's happening today.
MLB players are payed many times more than the regular person, and that makes perfect sense because they are the BEST IN THE WORLD AT WHAT THEY DO. That's the reason why they're payed so much. People who are the best in the world at what they do (unless it's really obscure) make tons of money, no matter what the profession. The best plumbers in the world make many times more than the average plumber, and that's OK.
And being a ball-player is not fun and games. Unless you're a one in 10 million talent, you have to stay in great shape and practice, practice, practice to get to the majors at all.
I'm not sure why you say "cheap entertainment controls money and lives." Though you may be right at a general level, I would not call baseball "cheap entertainment." This has gotten to be article length (don't ask me why, I just have a lot to say) so I'll stop now.
Baseball is great fun, both to watch and to play. But you'd have to be a rich man or a sucker to regularly watch it in person. In previous eras, players still made a living, and were content. Nowadays, the players can't begin to spend their earnings. The temptation that comes with $100,000,000 contracts can ruin someone's soul. I think that the wimpiest people ever are those who complain about their salaries, especially since there are many who'd do it for free.
DeleteI agree that ticket prices are way, way, way too high. Just ridiculous. I dunno if there's a clear link between salaries and moral degeneration, at least in this case. The players of 100 years ago spent their money as fast as they could also.
DeleteMariano Rivera earned $169M in his career, but he seems to still be a humble and god-fearing man.
What I think should happen is that the MLB player's salaries should be decreased (not dramatically, but a bit), and the difference go to paying minor leaguers a respectable amount. Because I think it's shameful how little minor leaguers are payed.
It will not matter to Bryce Harper if he you chop a million or two of his salary, and it would go a long way to helping minor leaguers.
And I think players don't complain about their salaries because of their wimpyness, but because of their pride. They don't want to be payed less than they think they're worth.
Delete